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Accidental Parenting
Accidental Parenting

Episode 21 · 2 years ago

S01E20: Adoption Law

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Aubrey interviews adoption attorney Tiffany Hill (adoptaz.com) about her experiences completing law school as a young mother and practicing adoption law. They end with a bang as the husbands are brought in to play a couple of rounds of the not-so-newlywed game.

Just before I pressed record, Aubreybreathed really loud into the microf I did that. I'm purpose to see ifI'd throw it off. Your didn't like a countdown. You know what?It reminded me that of, though. It reminded me of that one billyEilish song where she's like like intentionally bringing into intentional loud the bad guy.HMM, it's pretty good. Anyway, today we've got a really good episode. Welcome back to any new listeners. Welcome to any returning listeners. Welcomeback. If recall, last week we had a really cool episode on anopen adoption. Yes, Rochelle and Jessica we're here and talk to us abouttheir open adoption. It was amazing to have them be so open and willingto share that story. Yeah, and as a follow up, this weekwe've got a very special guest as well, someone who we know very well,a very good friend and family member. We always have to clarify its friendand family, but friend first. Tiffany Hill is an a attorney whospecializes in adoption. So Aubrey's going to be interviewing her coming up and we'rereally excited to hear how that goes. Yeah, let's listen to the interview. Hey, tephany, welcome to the PODCAST. Thanks every God you guyswere willing to make the drive. It's kind of a long drive now thatyou live so far from us in the valley, right. Yeah, fortyfive minutes is really fair. Feels like forever. Yeah, but whenever wedrive up there I'm always like, this really isn't that far. Why,in my mind, is it's so far? Because we live in with kids.You live in the radius, right, you live in a two mile radius. You want everything to be there and you go outside of that radiusand it feels like it's outside of your home. I think exactly. That'sexactly right. Every you know I'm not going to sign my kids up foranything that's further than that because it just takes too long. And so thenfriends live really far. You just don't see him that off on, unfortunately. I know. I know it had been a while since we saw youguys, so it is high time. I'm glad you're willing to come.I have an awkwardly personal question for you ready. I'm going to ask youwhat is your worst habit? I have lots of worst habits, but probablymy my worst habit that I don't like right, that I that I don'tthat I wish. You wish you could change where she could start. Yeah, perfect is is the need to eat, sometimes like a child. Like ifthere's gummy bears, I'll eat an entire bag of gummy bears rather thanjust, you know, maybe a couple, like the Everg adult could have twoand be done. Who Know, you're gonna pull like an entire bag. So for Christmas I received an entire Amazon box of sun kissed fruit gems. You, those are the worst. Do you like those? I do. That's not I least favor handy. Hate that. I like them.So I generally don't keep them in the home for that reason, because ifI have them, they're gone. So pretty. I like gummy bears andgummy worms, but I hate those fruit gems there. It's like way toomuch gummy. Oh, I love. They're too big. They're my favorite, which is why I don't. I...

...only have them once here. Haveyou ever had sugar free gummy bears? That's gross. I it's funny becauseif you look up like the Amazon reviews for Sugar Free Gummy bears, it'slike an issue like. I guess they give people like raging diarrhea. Oh, that I will not know. So don't be how don't be eating those. I should know better than think you would eat anything sugar free, though. No, if you're gonna eat it, just eat it. Yeah, enjoyit. Yeah, I try to. Just, you know, go nutsand then don't eat it for a while and then I feel the sameway about soda, which I know a lot of people are going to disagreehere, but I don't like to Diet Soda. If I'm going to drinkso it, I want to be full sugar. Absolutely gonna like it.I know you and I agree on this. We have that in common. AndI don't drink it a lot, but when I do, I justwant the real stuff. Yep, same thing, to give me the fullsugar a great totally agree. Okay, so to introduce you, I'm goingto make some assumptions, because there are I know a lot about you,but there are some things I don't know right. So it took me here. Is Coles cousin. Known her for a long time, since we gotmarried. Basically that coal longer than you. Have Known Coal longer than me.That's true. But I feel like you like me better. So well, e've doesn't everyone that? Yes, exactly, good answer. Okay,so I'm going to guess that your favorite food is pork Burritos at Kathe Rol. That's a good guess. I like those. That's a tough question becauseI generally like all food and I'm very I love all food. That's proprobably one of my favorites. But I love a good burger or I lovea good pizza. Those would probably be my top I like that you qualifywith good, because a burger can either be so good or so bad.Absolutely, and same with pizza. Absolutely. I've had some, gotta be saidtoo, terribles are good burger any day. What's your favorite Burger placein the valley? Well, I mean I love shake check right now,right so it's you know, they're building one right by our house, liketwo blocks from our house. I know it's so excited. It went throughthe other night. So have to wait in the in lines for hours inNew York City and now there's going to go on right round a corner.I now. So I know I do like I do love it. Ashake check probably is. It's the good everyday Burger. Right. Yeah,I'll agree with you there. I think shake check's the Best Burger. Yes, WE'RE gonna agree. We're gonna agree on that. Okay, second one. Your first job was at a movie theater, as my guess. False. My real first? Well, my first job was cleaning my father's officewhen I was way underage, right, I mean not of legal working age, but you said go down and my brother and I would clean the bathroom, vacuum all the office, is dust everything. Did you pay you prettywell or like here's a quarter? Oh No, I think he overpaid usout night at it. I think it's like this is how you are inyour allowance. I think it was his excuse to give us money, butfeel justified in doing so. Yeah, yeah, we're probably the most wellpaid cleaners at the time. Yeah, right. What was your first real, like taxable job? My first taxable job was when I was I temptit was a like a okay, yes, see, right, yeah, weworked for I did that for summer.

Yeah, yes, we both didthis. Yes, I think when I was home from college, that'swhat I did for the summer. What kind of places did Mike Secretarial?Mostly, right, that. Yeah, yeah, I mean always some oddlike I'd go in and do projects, right, I remember always some weresecond pure secretary and some were working on you know, we need you toclean up this project or put this togetter something. For sure, tempting isthe worst. I didn't do it for very long. You know, it'sonly the only thing that keeps it from the worst is you. If youhate it, you know it's short term. That's true, like what I'll bedone in a few days. Yeah, that's a good point. That's greatabout it actually. Yeah, yeah, okay. Favorite vacation was visiting uswhen we lived in New York City. Sure, but yeah, I guessnothing could be better. Nothing could be better. That was a greattrip. I have to say. It was really fun. It was greatbecause it was it was cold in New York, which that's the only timeI've been when it's cold there. I know we were able to do allthe fun cold weather. So went skating at Rockefeller Center. That was great. Central Park for like a Halloween Festival. was that best time here. Thatwas really great. I was glad to have that experience. For surefall in us, because that's a good answer. Just say, yeah,okay, what was your real favorite vacation? It's okay. Was it was.I like, you know, it's just like food. I like anytravel right, whether it's close by. I mean great vacation. That's likebig vacation would probably have been great. Ye, where we did the Peloponneseand we did the mainland, where we drove and had no idea where wewere. I love that feeling. Right, we're all the signs are literally inGreek, so you don't know where you are and it kind of fallof groves and so just you en troy. Huh, that's right, eye.Any vacation without kids really is right. And then we went to the islands, which were beautiful, so nice. When I was there, I wasin Greece and I did the Peloponnese, but I did it with like atour like me and a bunch of adorable grandma's, so you knew whereyou were at all I knew where I was at all times. I waskind of a bummer and I wasn't I didn't have the money. I waslike eighteen, so I wasn't able to do any of the islands. Soit was sad to be so close and now be able to go see thatis was probably one of my favor very cool, gorgeous and it's really onceyou're out of Athens, right, it's still remote. I think it's.Could have this wrong, but like ten percent of the population lives out ofthe Peloponnese, a very small portion compared to very rural yes, yes,yeah, she's gorgeous. I had to do it for a class. Iwas doing this ancient civilizations class for by you via field study when I wasa nanny and Belgium, and I just had to do the coursework while Iwas there, and that was the teacher had said. You have to goand see all of these ancient ruins and then like write a paper about it. It was one of the coolest classes ever. Yes, it was kindof great, because I don't know that I would have gone there on myown. You know, I was trying to see all of Europe, butit's not the typical Greece, which is, I think, what's so great aboutit. You see a little more. Yes, right, exactly right,awesome. Okay, last one. Your least favorite college class, I'mgoing to say, was microbiology. Oh, I didn't take any microbiology class me. Neither but it sounds horrible, sounds awful. That would have beenmy least favorite. Had if basically take...

...it, that would have been myleast favorite for sure. Yes, absolutely was your least favorite class. Humor, probably ironically so. I was a finance Undergrad Major. But probably myleast favorite was the only real math class I had to take. I don'tremember what it was, but I remember having to take it as like asophomore junior because I missed taking it as a freshman. So I had nottaken a math class in several years and it was the only one I hadto have. So then and there were not a great math, just mathat all. Right, I think. I mean I again, I wasfinanced, so it's it is funny silly that. Or I had to takean online cooking class to graduate, which online cooking on linco interesting. Theyjust did it all at home like but it I needed. I needed,I think, two credits to graduate and I was all. I was completelydone and wanted to leave and didn't want to stay. So I did anonline cooking class. Interesting, and that was one of your least favorites.I think that'd be like. Well, it was just sort of it's allroway cooking. Yeah, so it's a little pointless. Yes, you know, least pointless or least favorite. I'm easy, easy. Maybe that's agood at least. But it was easy. I didn't have to take any mathclasses at college and I'm so glad. I think that's kind of I chosemy major of what would not require any math classes because I hated mathsso much and it was so bad, stiffinite. A collegial level, Ididn't mind it. And you know High School and Oh, I hate Idid my finance classes that were more finance base, but the but that makessense. Like you liked math well enough to choose finance as a major.I would never have chosen finances at me any better. All Right? Well, yeah, so I got a couple close at least. Sure, absolutely, you know me. I know you pretty well. So, yeah,we we asked Tiffany to come on the podcast because we interviewed my friends Rochelleand Jessica last week about their open adoption, which was this awesome story, andtiffany actually is a lawyer who specializes in adoption. So I called herand said, Oh, would you come on for like a follow up becausethere's actually so much that I don't know about it still inside. So manyquestions for you. So I hope you're open to answering all my random questionsabout adoption law. But first I want to know, like why did youjust I did, decide to study law in the first place? Like,why did you want to be an attorney? You know, I grew up mymy father was a lawyer, went as a child, so you know, I was exposed to it a lot. I always assumed I'd go to lawschool and had planned on going and I right out of Undergrad right beforeI graduated, I took the L S at sort of quickly and then graduatedwhile I was reading for results and I graduated in the boom, right beforethe big recessions. So jobs were, you know, everywhere and to full. went to full. So I got into a job that I thought Iwas going to love. You know, that was really, really fun,High Pace, you know, working with the CEO and and kind of goton that track and kind of lost track of law school and then stopped thatjob, you know, retired from that...

...job essentially and had my first daughterand at that point I realized, you know, Gosh, I need todo this now. I had thought maybe I'll go back when, you know, I have kids and they're older, and I thought now, I wantto do it now. In My lsets were actually about to expire. No, and you don't want to take that test again. No, no.So I take a yeah, they have a five year so it had beenI was hitting that fifth year and I thought, Gosh, I should justdo it. So I was what sort of did it on a whim,honest. Okay, I just thought I always knew I wanted to do itand knew I would get my law degree at some point. It was nevera question, but just sort of went, let's do it now, let's dono time, like you know, right. And so you had onechild. When you see at one, one year old, or okay,it was I believe she's about eighteen months probably when I started. Okay,Gotcha. And then what was your experience like attending school with a child?I always say it was the greatest thing because I really appreciated it in thissense that I was I was fortunate enough to be home most of the dayand try would get home from work, I jump in the car and youknow, there's nothing like being a first time mom and being home all daywith a baby, to get in the car and listen to the radio ortalk, you know, do whatever you wanted to for that drive, drivein to school and just to have that free time and then to, youknow, sit through classes and it you know, interact with other people and, you know, kind of have a different identity. It was fantastic.I actually really really enjoyed it. It was probably a good pace to doit in because, you know, I just had one, she was young, she napped, I could study when she napped. I wasn't busy ina lot of other ways that I would be now. Just why I'm gratefull did it then, but yeah, definitely didn't have like another toddler toentertain besides the baby, so that would help. Not It was it wasthe same for me a lot when I when I first had little ones,I was working and it was very valuable for me as well to be ableto be home and then also be working, and the time that I was homewith my children I made so much more meaningful because I knew that timewas limited and I wanted every moment with them to be absolutely it almost helpedme balance it more. In fact, yeah, I really enjoyed that firstyear and a half that I was just home with my daughter. But Iknew for me, I knew for it was something where I needed to getback to school and needed that other outlet, right, I mean everybody's different andyeah, me, I really really needed that and it filled up forme and I you're right, I balanced so much better and I think Iwas a much better mom because I had that balance. I knew, okay, this is my time and then I and then I'm leaving and and Ialso think it helped my husband a lot figure out how to be a dad, because I wasn't there doing dinner and you know, I was and thereall the time. And in fact, at my I remember very vividly sortof one of these moments where I had I had called him. I hadabout a thirty to forty five minute drive down to school, e. everynight, four nights a week, and...

I called him one day on thedrive down and he just and this was after we had had a second child, and he said he and interrupts me and just I gotta go, thebabies crying, dinners about to burn and he just was flustered, and Inot in an awful way. Maybe you're like this is so good for him. I was like, this is fantastic because right, this is what mommust feel all the time. Yeah, and and I think because oftentimes,not always, but oftentimes, you know, when there's a second parent had juststep in and juggle that with you, you don't feel that all that weighton you right that you have oftentimes, and it typically falls to the momright where you're juggling all of those things at once. And ever sincethen I really think that changed not only our marriage but our parenting, becausehe really truly felt what it was like to do it all on your ownand have to juggle that without somebody to step in and help you. Yeah, Col and I had a similar experience in New York when I he wasthe one home with the new baby and toddler and I was working, andhe, yeah, same. Think that he was able to see how difficultit is and how challenging it is, and so he has such, youknow, a bigger appreciation for what that takes. But also, yeah,it's definitely good to point out that it was always both of us sharing that. I don't know how people to it. If it's that, it's would beso difficult on your own. For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So, okay, I have another question for you here. Let's see. So, you you did school part time, nights, right, and then atwhat point did you side you want to specialize in adoption law? Was itearly in school or later? You know, I it sounds a little bit cheesy, but I always felt it right. I never knew where adoption would playa factor in my life. I always felt dry, you know,I always felt really just drawn to adoption and just thought, I don't knowhow this will be a part of my life, but I just knew itwould be. And when I was in school, you know, again alwaysjust kind of drawn to it, and there was an event for adoption calledNational Adoption Day, and I think it was probably my my sophomore or my, sorry, my second year of law school, and I thought well,you know, I should volunteer at this and kind of, you know,find out more about it. And it was I mean, it was adone deal after that, right. I mean it was all that I wantedto do in that sense that I didn't know how I was going to getthere, but I just knew this is this is what I want. I'mreally passionate about and I really want to be in this field, and soI was fortunate enough to find my way there. But yeah, yeah,so can you tell us about the firm that you work for now? Like, yeah, let's hear about it. So when I that the adoption eventthat I volunteered for, I went in and I think, Gosh, Iwent in and then I end up helping their organize their volunteers, I thinkthe following year. But in the very...

...first meaning that I attended for thatvolunteer opportunity, I met my now law partner, Cathy Pidgeon, who's incredibleand she's longtime adopting attorney here in the valley, and so I met herat a point in her career where she was looking to not step back alittle bit, but to finally have some help. She had been so fora long time, as as a lot of people are in this field,and she had just kind of had a point where she was looking at maybe, you know, with the right fit. And so when she met me,you know, we joke that it was just sort of, you know, meant to be where we just we just clicked. I mean a partnershipor, you know, in any business it's really similar to a marriage,where you've got there's so many different connection points you have to make right andyou can't just both, you know, want to do this. You haveto be able to operate well together. And so I interned for her duringwhile I finished law school and then came on as an associate after I passedthe bar and lunched write in right into practicing. And then you've always beenable to do it part time, right, which would be so when I startedI did. Yeah, when I started I did part time. Iwas in law school, so I, you know, juggled days here andthere on the way to law school and then I worked parttime initially until then, you know, I just you know, merged into what I do now,which is more full time work, and then we partnered, Gosh,I don't know, a couple of years ago. So yeah, it's beenit's been great and I think it's you know, she was able to mentorme and I was able to come in when she was looking to not haveall the pressure of being a solo, and it's been it's been a greatworking really. And what's it like day to day like. Do you representboth parents who are placing and also parents are adopting? Sure, so wedo. There's every adoptions difference. So I work for I represent a lotof adopting parents. Specifically, I do a lot of foster care work,so people adopting through the foster care system, okay, which can be relatives,grandparents and uncle's, brother sisters or you know, or traditional the fosterparents who are who are adopting a child that they've been fostering. And thenin private work I represent adopt people who are adopting or I represent birth mothers, so people who are placing their children, and I'll see them anytime. Youknow, I'll have birth mothers who come in and say I'm pregnant.I you know, help and I help them to find a family to placetheir child with and then, you know, sometimes they come to me and sayI already know whom I want to place with and I just need torepresentation, that sort of thing. So a lot of people match on theirown and you know, we're family friends, things like that, and so theyjust need to me to come in and do that. You know,the legal work and how does it work as far as fees, like whopays the fees? How does that work? So in a foster adoption, inArizona at least, so every every state's different. Every state's completely different, fifty sets of adoption law, but in Arizona at least, our state, it's really nice. Our state actually...

...covers the legal cost to adopt afoster child. Okay, so I love that because I don't ever have tobuild a client in that situation. This I build the State Gotcha, whichis great, and I don't build above with the state covers. So there'sno kind of fees. And then in private yeah, the adopting parents arethe ones that cover all legal costs. So they cover legal costs for thebirth mother. So they're the ones. They're they're not the client, theclient attorney. Relationship is still with the with the birth mother, but theadoptive parent pays those legal fees. So and they also pay medical fees.Or is that that various case by case. In a good majority of the casesthe mother is often on state access, on our state medical insurance. Oh, you know, occasionally they'll have their own private insurance, but youknow, again, the vast majority have are on access. Okay, so, but if they're, if they're not covered, if there's like an inyou know, then then yes, typically they would cover those. Gotcha.And I'm curious, do you do you feel that, you know, everyonewho's placing or adopting should have legal representation, or is it just very case bycase? You think you know sometimes it's so absolutely okay, absolutely,I think you know it's adoption is one of those areas. It's an interestingthing because everyone hears adoption and they think it's all just sunshine and roses andand oftentimes it can be, but it's also incredibly complex. There's a lotof nuances and you don't know what's going to go wrong till it goes wrong. And I've even seen that where things will even come up now after allthese years of practicing, that that's a little bit new, a little bitdifferent, but it's a really small area of law and, you know,having having separate representation is pretty critical. First of all, you've got,you know, consent that the birth mother signs that, you know, placesthe child officially with the family, and the only way that those can bequestion is if they were taken, if they can be proven that they weretaken under fraud or direst or undue influence, and so having representation in place wherethat that mother had the opportunity to, you know, be counseled and becounseled on her rights. I mean that's the really the only way toprotect that. And there's other things that you know need to be discussed.You know, will learn be contact after the adoption and and so I thinkit's pretty critical that she have her own own representation. Yeah, to discussthose things. And typically the adoptive parents and birth mother are aligned, butnot always, and so you know you want to make sure that you workthrough all of that. Do you ever represent both? Like know that wouldbe a conflict of interesting said, be a conflict and ethical conflict. Soyou know you can't. Yeah, you can't representable. Yeah, that makessense. So you know you'll hear about where, you know, people willgo unrepresented and things like that, and that can happen, but in it'spretty rare that I wouldn't recommend that both both sides have their own attorney.Yeah, I know we had talked about Rachelle and Jessica's experience and just howunique it was. You know, ideally...

...it would be amazing if everyone hadsuch a positive relationship and such an amazing open adoption. But I, youknow, I don't know that much adoption and I still had the feeling thatthat would be very unique. And then talking to you, your like,yes, that's very unique. Maybe that close is. Yeah, I meanyou know, it's an ideal situation, right. I mean that's what youhope for. You hope that it's this great positive thing and for a lotof people it is. You the more often what I see is that thebiological mother, often times we'll sort of move on into another phase of herlife and they'll be some loose contact. A lot of them, you know, if they move states, things like that. On thet'll be some loosecontact and they they but they you know, they kind of move on to anotherphase of their life. But to see each other in person regularly,you know, it can happen. I certainly see it, but it's notnecessarily the norm. Yeah, of every single day. Are you in inever in a position where you sort of counsel or recommend as far as openor closed adoptions or how to do that, or would you refer them to likea counselor how would that work? So I always recommend counseling for birthmother. Okay, whether or not they take advantage of it. You know, you can't. Can't for somebody to do that. I always recommend it. Closed adoption is really a thing of the past, particularly in our worldwith, you know, Internet and facebook and all of that. No,it's pretty rare that you actually have a true close adoption where names aren't known. I've done one, HMM, out of the you know, all ofthe ones that I've done. Typically they're open, but the the degree ofopenness is what's what just it varies wildly, right. So some it's that they'llsend a photo and update, you know once, once or twice ayear, things like that, so that so that, you know, thebirth mom knows that her child's okay and that he's growing here, she's growingup well. Others, you know, have visits, others send you know, see each other. At the end of the day, it's really upto the parties. It's really up to their relationship and I tell people thatit you know, we typically can put together something called the contact agreement wherewe kind of outline, look, this is what's to be expected and thisis what everyone's planning on doing and we submit this to the court and theircourt approved. But I always tell people, look, this is a bare minimum. Whatever relationship you're going to have is is going to going to groworganically right between the trust between you all and and for some people that growsinto something beautiful where they see each other regularly and, you know, talkand like your guests last week. For other people it's a little more distantand for some, sadly, they lose contact and people move on. Iwill tell you more often than not it is the adopting family that is callingsaying I can't get a hold of my birth mom. You know, everyonesort of goes into it thinking they're a little bit scared. They're thinking thatthe birth mom is going to come back and, you know, stock themor something. I never see that. I see in the reverse where theadopting families saying, Gosh, I we just really want to get a holdof her and we can't give her updates...

...and we can get a hold ofher. Yeah, do you ever have any regrets about going into adoption?Think maybe there's that are not so much. No, yeah, no, Ilove it. I mean it's it's really hard at times. It's likeanything. It's you know, there are really difficult things about it, butI genuinely, genuinely love it. So you don't mind those really hard things? Yeah, right, it makes it worth it. That's kind of amazingthat you've been able to find it's great. Yeah, I feel very, sopassionate about very, very lucky. Right, this is what you alwaysyou know, you want to find something that you do in life that youfeel really passionate about. Definitely. So. Yeah, and they be able tomake it work with I mean you have four kids now, five orkids, very funny like you're very a million of a couple more in there. No, no, or Gotcha or kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it works right. I mean I feel like anything, that it'salways a balance. I mean it's you know, I think everyone's kind ofrealized that you, you know, can't have it all right. You can'tdo everything at all times. But I feel like for everyone, and ittook me years to figure this out, you have to find that balance ofwhat works for you and what things you're going to give up that are worthit. And I feel like I finally have got no point where that anythingI give up for my family. We we get back in that sense ofyes, you know, the flexibility that I have, and it really youknow, but it takes time to figure that out. Yeah, definitely,and I know that we've talked about this and you are able to really makethe time that you have with your kids more valuable, because it's precious.It's a little more limited if you're with them all day every day. TheTimes when I have been with mine all day every day, sometimes I don'tmake it that valuable. You know, I don't really do anything that andbecause I'm like, I've got all day and then I've got all day tomorrow. So and then can it can feel very long when you're going to yes, yeah, so in some ways that's good. Okay. Well, wehave this exciting opportunity because you and your husband are here, and so we'reactually going to play the newly wed game with you. Guys. Good,be amazing. We're not so really what the nuts? So newly wed gamethen, but we get and so we're going to go get our husband's andwe'll be right back. Cole and troy say hi Hello. That was quitetexy. So troy and I are sharing a microphone right now. I thinkI need a tic tech uncomfortably close. We have three microphones and definitely enoughher own and we are sharing it to share. All right. So we'regoing to play the newly wed game for just we're going to ask the guystwo questions and we girls are gonna just think of our answer and you can'tchange it based on what choice says. So cold you can answer. First, what is her favorite sport? So what is your favorites? Yes,Oh, that's easy. I answer right now. Yes, the volleyball.Okay, and Troy. What is Tiffany's favorite sport? This is harder.For Troy. Yeah, I was going...

...to say the volleyball for Aubrey.I actually knew that answer. Can I take mine, but my wife,can I take a picture for the look on choices face right now? It'sthat's going on the gram. It's because it's because what he wants to sayI can answering to say. Are Two different things. Want. So isballet a sport? Yes, okay, ballet, I think so. Wouldnever have said that I did ballet for probably. Can I guess what yoursis, tiffany? Yes, is it? Is it? MMM, because Iknow you were a cheerleader in high school. That's a sport, cheerleading. We worked hard. I would say it's cheerleading. Right, let's hearyour's, tiffany. What's your favorite sport? So I was I was going tosay tennis because that's the only one sport that I currently great sport.I did ballet when I was from the ages of probably five to thirty three. You aware that tiffany currently play tennis? I did not know that she currentlyplace tennis currently. The last setter time we played was pretty three.Well, let's not get into the detail, but you guys can save this fightfor the drive home. Yeah, well, we talk. You guysplayed pickle ball? No, okay, so a tennis we need to play. People would love pickle ball and we should play. We've been playing alot. It's kind of like Ping Pong meets pickle ball and it's really fun. We'll play sometime. Okay. So second question. So, wait,you were correct. Thank you. That's so one point for the carters,it's true, negative one for the hills and it would be zero. Yourhardcore here. Okay, so what will she say? Is the last thingyou did that made her really happy? Cool, when I made lunch forthe kids today. And Troy, what's the last thing you did that madetiffany really happy? When I changed the baby's dirty diaper. Yeah, good, when be specific? Today? Okay, good, that's good. If it'stoday. Yeah, there. Do you wom any? Yes, yeah, yeah, I want to hear because because I'm thinking the diaper change.That should be automatic. diagree. I agree. So that's not but whatI thought was should be making. Sorry, I'm not helping you here, butno, but, but what was really great was this morning I wokeup and I think it was like nine o'clock, which is always pleasant rightwhen you have kids, because he was out with the boys, just hangingout with that late Nina, and I didn't even know they were I didn'teven know they had woken up. Wow, dad, of the days call yearNice. Yeah, that's great. So, for the record, wasit? It wasn't the diaper change then? No, okay, that's share duties. So now that another you guys are negative to just notice. Wait, wait, hold on, hang on. What's your because you made lunch everywhat's your answer? Because so they could be a zero. We couldbe thinking. So what I had thought of was when you cleaned out thefridge. That is like my love language is someone cleans out my fridge.But it's because that's just the last thing that I was like, oh,that's burned in my brain right. But...

...lunch today, because it wasn't justsandwiches guys. He like got all the stuff and made all the toppings forthem to make individual pizzas for lunch today. It's above and beyond that and intense. Sat Out. Will was like best dad ever. was that kindof lunch. So that was big. And then he did the dishes.He cleaned up after to so dada her day to do the dishes. That'strue, as I should all be a yeah, but individual pizzas, that'slike above and beyond. That is that is that's all right. So FinalScore, carters, zero hills, negative to we still win. That's it. That's it. Now. Is there one more question? Well, wehave the girls questions now. So, Oh, okay, when is thelast time he broke the law? Do Traffic Infringements? Comes like I spedthe whole way down here. Oh, answer for Tiffany. I mean trafficinfringements. If you can, that is breaking the law. The law isfollow the speed limit. Let's let you hold on. Let's let's expand,because all I got stry non traffic, let's say traffic infringements. Speeding doesnot count, beating doesn't count. Okay, guys. So I could have tobe like a big violation, I mean lots of speeding, right.So can I answer? Yeah, okay, please. I don't know that thelast time he broke the law. I'M gonna go way back. Likeit right, because really he doesn't break the law often. Doesn't break alot often, and it's traffic stuff which is boring and nobody wants to hearthat. But he he was arrested. was arrested. Let's here our andand he had I think it was like a can I s tell any chargehis product? Okay, hold on, hold on. So the story aboutthe arrest. Can we save that for the next episode? Sure, youguys share that. We're interviewer. Okay, can we just hear what it was? Maybe he wasn't generally want to. That's this is nothing. teaser.This is a teaser. Okay, stay tuned now. Would that beon? That why troy was arrested. It was a class B misdemeanor.Oh Dang it, I exactly. Is that your answer? Yes, itwas, you were going to say. Now it's his answer. Yeah,because I really don't do too much to break the law. Okay, negative, so negative, one to zero, Aubrey. So you guys are similarin that neither of you do much to break the law, except that Colenever speeds, like never. He goes exactly the speed limit, if anything, sometimes a couple miles under. It pays to be safe. It's AWFUME. No, it's not that bad. But then he will get pulled overfor the most random like don't even really count. He got pulled over oncefor making like an illegal left turn. That really wasn't even lie illegal.And the last time, this is what I'm going to say, the mostrecent thing, is he got pulled over for not leaving your lane and enteringyour lane, like he made a turn and then he came into the MiddleLane instead of the far left leg. That is who gets pulled off for. That absolutely ridiculous and correct. I made a left hand turn and Ipulled into the Middle Lane instead of the...

...left lane and I got pulled over, and that's the last time I broke the law. That's very dangerous,just so you know, but it's still worth one point. So negative,one, two, one. Okay, last question with that was your answer. Yeah, yes, we were together also. Yeah, I think theydid. We really hadn't talked before, but that is the last thing theydied. You were thinking of that one. Yes, counts. We should havemade us write them down to be now we're okay. Last one,Tiffany, what is the longest troy has ever gone without showering? I'm goingto say in his adult life, right, we don't count yeah, adult lifeshowers. I'm going to say five days, because he does like someof these campouts and engineering and stuff, mountain man things where they don't shower. I think that was probably his longest when they hiked like Mount Whitney.I'M gonna go for that. Okay, my answer is like five hours,because cold showers like three times a day for some reason, like you,for no, really showers once a day. I feel like I should go reallyaccurately. I'm going to amend it to say because, yeah, we'vebeen camping and things where there's just no shower available, but I still Istill think probably three days is my guests longest. No, shower. Allright, boys, what are your answers? So she is correct. It wascamp it was while I was doing a camping trip, but it wasat Mount Ray near and we were doing the wonderland trail for five days andthere was no shower. Oh yeah, that's five days right. That's thepoint. That's like two points. Well, but if you had gotten the rightmountain, that would be two pounds. But at one point, one point, how many? How many days did you say? Aubrey, three, see, I went with four and okay now, but usually, likecamping time, things right. So it's a high game. Zero to zero. All right. How ill? How long have you been married, trophy? Yeah, there, like it's another not so newly wed game, butwe're not answering any better than newly weds. W all right, that's all forthis week's episode. Things are coming tiffany and chatting with me, andnext week we're going to have troy. I'm going to interview troy and it'sgoing to be blast and we're going to hear about all about how he wasarrested. By the way, there's a big baby that's in the room.If you've been hearing a thumping noise at all during the last five or tenminutes. Slapping his leg. That's the baby. Yeah, that's the baby, kicking the floor right by the microphone. So all right, see you nexttime.

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