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Accidental Parenting
Accidental Parenting

Episode 21 · 2 years ago

S01E20: Adoption Law

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Aubrey interviews adoption attorney Tiffany Hill (adoptaz.com) about her experiences completing law school as a young mother and practicing adoption law. They end with a bang as the husbands are brought in to play a couple of rounds of the not-so-newlywed game.

Just before I pressed record, Aubrey breathed really loud into the microf I did that. I'm purpose to see if I'd throw it off. Your didn't like a countdown. You know what? It reminded me that of, though. It reminded me of that one billy Eilish song where she's like like intentionally bringing into intentional loud the bad guy. HMM, it's pretty good. Anyway, today we've got a really good episode. Welcome back to any new listeners. Welcome to any returning listeners. Welcome back. If recall, last week we had a really cool episode on an open adoption. Yes, Rochelle and Jessica we're here and talk to us about their open adoption. It was amazing to have them be so open and willing to share that story. Yeah, and as a follow up, this week we've got a very special guest as well, someone who we know very well, a very good friend and family member. We always have to clarify its friend and family, but friend first. Tiffany Hill is an a attorney who specializes in adoption. So Aubrey's going to be interviewing her coming up and we're really excited to hear how that goes. Yeah, let's listen to the interview. Hey, tephany, welcome to the PODCAST. Thanks every God you guys were willing to make the drive. It's kind of a long drive now that you live so far from us in the valley, right. Yeah, forty five minutes is really fair. Feels like forever. Yeah, but whenever we drive up there I'm always like, this really isn't that far. Why, in my mind, is it's so far? Because we live in with kids. You live in the radius, right, you live in a two mile radius. You want everything to be there and you go outside of that radius and it feels like it's outside of your home. I think exactly. That's exactly right. Every you know I'm not going to sign my kids up for anything that's further than that because it just takes too long. And so then friends live really far. You just don't see him that off on, unfortunately. I know. I know it had been a while since we saw you guys, so it is high time. I'm glad you're willing to come. I have an awkwardly personal question for you ready. I'm going to ask you what is your worst habit? I have lots of worst habits, but probably my my worst habit that I don't like right, that I that I don't that I wish. You wish you could change where she could start. Yeah, perfect is is the need to eat, sometimes like a child. Like if there's gummy bears, I'll eat an entire bag of gummy bears rather than just, you know, maybe a couple, like the Everg adult could have two and be done. Who Know, you're gonna pull like an entire bag. So for Christmas I received an entire Amazon box of sun kissed fruit gems. You, those are the worst. Do you like those? I do. That's not I least favor handy. Hate that. I like them. So I generally don't keep them in the home for that reason, because if I have them, they're gone. So pretty. I like gummy bears and gummy worms, but I hate those fruit gems there. It's like way too much gummy. Oh, I love. They're too big. They're my favorite, which is why I don't. I...

...only have them once here. Have you ever had sugar free gummy bears? That's gross. I it's funny because if you look up like the Amazon reviews for Sugar Free Gummy bears, it's like an issue like. I guess they give people like raging diarrhea. Oh, that I will not know. So don't be how don't be eating those. I should know better than think you would eat anything sugar free, though. No, if you're gonna eat it, just eat it. Yeah, enjoy it. Yeah, I try to. Just, you know, go nuts and then don't eat it for a while and then I feel the same way about soda, which I know a lot of people are going to disagree here, but I don't like to Diet Soda. If I'm going to drink so it, I want to be full sugar. Absolutely gonna like it. I know you and I agree on this. We have that in common. And I don't drink it a lot, but when I do, I just want the real stuff. Yep, same thing, to give me the full sugar a great totally agree. Okay, so to introduce you, I'm going to make some assumptions, because there are I know a lot about you, but there are some things I don't know right. So it took me here. Is Coles cousin. Known her for a long time, since we got married. Basically that coal longer than you. Have Known Coal longer than me. That's true. But I feel like you like me better. So well, e've doesn't everyone that? Yes, exactly, good answer. Okay, so I'm going to guess that your favorite food is pork Burritos at Kathe Rol. That's a good guess. I like those. That's a tough question because I generally like all food and I'm very I love all food. That's pro probably one of my favorites. But I love a good burger or I love a good pizza. Those would probably be my top I like that you qualify with good, because a burger can either be so good or so bad. Absolutely, and same with pizza. Absolutely. I've had some, gotta be said too, terribles are good burger any day. What's your favorite Burger place in the valley? Well, I mean I love shake check right now, right so it's you know, they're building one right by our house, like two blocks from our house. I know it's so excited. It went through the other night. So have to wait in the in lines for hours in New York City and now there's going to go on right round a corner. I now. So I know I do like I do love it. A shake check probably is. It's the good everyday Burger. Right. Yeah, I'll agree with you there. I think shake check's the Best Burger. Yes, WE'RE gonna agree. We're gonna agree on that. Okay, second one. Your first job was at a movie theater, as my guess. False. My real first? Well, my first job was cleaning my father's office when I was way underage, right, I mean not of legal working age, but you said go down and my brother and I would clean the bathroom, vacuum all the office, is dust everything. Did you pay you pretty well or like here's a quarter? Oh No, I think he overpaid us out night at it. I think it's like this is how you are in your allowance. I think it was his excuse to give us money, but feel justified in doing so. Yeah, yeah, we're probably the most well paid cleaners at the time. Yeah, right. What was your first real, like taxable job? My first taxable job was when I was I tempt it was a like a okay, yes, see, right, yeah, we worked for I did that for summer.

Yeah, yes, we both did this. Yes, I think when I was home from college, that's what I did for the summer. What kind of places did Mike Secretarial? Mostly, right, that. Yeah, yeah, I mean always some odd like I'd go in and do projects, right, I remember always some were second pure secretary and some were working on you know, we need you to clean up this project or put this togetter something. For sure, tempting is the worst. I didn't do it for very long. You know, it's only the only thing that keeps it from the worst is you. If you hate it, you know it's short term. That's true, like what I'll be done in a few days. Yeah, that's a good point. That's great about it actually. Yeah, yeah, okay. Favorite vacation was visiting us when we lived in New York City. Sure, but yeah, I guess nothing could be better. Nothing could be better. That was a great trip. I have to say. It was really fun. It was great because it was it was cold in New York, which that's the only time I've been when it's cold there. I know we were able to do all the fun cold weather. So went skating at Rockefeller Center. That was great. Central Park for like a Halloween Festival. was that best time here. That was really great. I was glad to have that experience. For sure fall in us, because that's a good answer. Just say, yeah, okay, what was your real favorite vacation? It's okay. Was it was. I like, you know, it's just like food. I like any travel right, whether it's close by. I mean great vacation. That's like big vacation would probably have been great. Ye, where we did the Peloponnese and we did the mainland, where we drove and had no idea where we were. I love that feeling. Right, we're all the signs are literally in Greek, so you don't know where you are and it kind of fall of groves and so just you en troy. Huh, that's right, eye. Any vacation without kids really is right. And then we went to the islands, which were beautiful, so nice. When I was there, I was in Greece and I did the Peloponnese, but I did it with like a tour like me and a bunch of adorable grandma's, so you knew where you were at all I knew where I was at all times. I was kind of a bummer and I wasn't I didn't have the money. I was like eighteen, so I wasn't able to do any of the islands. So it was sad to be so close and now be able to go see that is was probably one of my favor very cool, gorgeous and it's really once you're out of Athens, right, it's still remote. I think it's. Could have this wrong, but like ten percent of the population lives out of the Peloponnese, a very small portion compared to very rural yes, yes, yeah, she's gorgeous. I had to do it for a class. I was doing this ancient civilizations class for by you via field study when I was a nanny and Belgium, and I just had to do the coursework while I was there, and that was the teacher had said. You have to go and see all of these ancient ruins and then like write a paper about it. It was one of the coolest classes ever. Yes, it was kind of great, because I don't know that I would have gone there on my own. You know, I was trying to see all of Europe, but it's not the typical Greece, which is, I think, what's so great about it. You see a little more. Yes, right, exactly right, awesome. Okay, last one. Your least favorite college class, I'm going to say, was microbiology. Oh, I didn't take any microbiology class me. Neither but it sounds horrible, sounds awful. That would have been my least favorite. Had if basically take...

...it, that would have been my least favorite for sure. Yes, absolutely was your least favorite class. Humor, probably ironically so. I was a finance Undergrad Major. But probably my least favorite was the only real math class I had to take. I don't remember what it was, but I remember having to take it as like a sophomore junior because I missed taking it as a freshman. So I had not taken a math class in several years and it was the only one I had to have. So then and there were not a great math, just math at all. Right, I think. I mean I again, I was financed, so it's it is funny silly that. Or I had to take an online cooking class to graduate, which online cooking on linco interesting. They just did it all at home like but it I needed. I needed, I think, two credits to graduate and I was all. I was completely done and wanted to leave and didn't want to stay. So I did an online cooking class. Interesting, and that was one of your least favorites. I think that'd be like. Well, it was just sort of it's all roway cooking. Yeah, so it's a little pointless. Yes, you know, least pointless or least favorite. I'm easy, easy. Maybe that's a good at least. But it was easy. I didn't have to take any math classes at college and I'm so glad. I think that's kind of I chose my major of what would not require any math classes because I hated maths so much and it was so bad, stiffinite. A collegial level, I didn't mind it. And you know High School and Oh, I hate I did my finance classes that were more finance base, but the but that makes sense. Like you liked math well enough to choose finance as a major. I would never have chosen finances at me any better. All Right? Well, yeah, so I got a couple close at least. Sure, absolutely, you know me. I know you pretty well. So, yeah, we we asked Tiffany to come on the podcast because we interviewed my friends Rochelle and Jessica last week about their open adoption, which was this awesome story, and tiffany actually is a lawyer who specializes in adoption. So I called her and said, Oh, would you come on for like a follow up because there's actually so much that I don't know about it still inside. So many questions for you. So I hope you're open to answering all my random questions about adoption law. But first I want to know, like why did you just I did, decide to study law in the first place? Like, why did you want to be an attorney? You know, I grew up my my father was a lawyer, went as a child, so you know, I was exposed to it a lot. I always assumed I'd go to law school and had planned on going and I right out of Undergrad right before I graduated, I took the L S at sort of quickly and then graduated while I was reading for results and I graduated in the boom, right before the big recessions. So jobs were, you know, everywhere and to full. went to full. So I got into a job that I thought I was going to love. You know, that was really, really fun, High Pace, you know, working with the CEO and and kind of got on that track and kind of lost track of law school and then stopped that job, you know, retired from that...

...job essentially and had my first daughter and at that point I realized, you know, Gosh, I need to do this now. I had thought maybe I'll go back when, you know, I have kids and they're older, and I thought now, I want to do it now. In My lsets were actually about to expire. No, and you don't want to take that test again. No, no. So I take a yeah, they have a five year so it had been I was hitting that fifth year and I thought, Gosh, I should just do it. So I was what sort of did it on a whim, honest. Okay, I just thought I always knew I wanted to do it and knew I would get my law degree at some point. It was never a question, but just sort of went, let's do it now, let's do no time, like you know, right. And so you had one child. When you see at one, one year old, or okay, it was I believe she's about eighteen months probably when I started. Okay, Gotcha. And then what was your experience like attending school with a child? I always say it was the greatest thing because I really appreciated it in this sense that I was I was fortunate enough to be home most of the day and try would get home from work, I jump in the car and you know, there's nothing like being a first time mom and being home all day with a baby, to get in the car and listen to the radio or talk, you know, do whatever you wanted to for that drive, drive in to school and just to have that free time and then to, you know, sit through classes and it you know, interact with other people and, you know, kind of have a different identity. It was fantastic. I actually really really enjoyed it. It was probably a good pace to do it in because, you know, I just had one, she was young, she napped, I could study when she napped. I wasn't busy in a lot of other ways that I would be now. Just why I'm grateful l did it then, but yeah, definitely didn't have like another toddler to entertain besides the baby, so that would help. Not It was it was the same for me a lot when I when I first had little ones, I was working and it was very valuable for me as well to be able to be home and then also be working, and the time that I was home with my children I made so much more meaningful because I knew that time was limited and I wanted every moment with them to be absolutely it almost helped me balance it more. In fact, yeah, I really enjoyed that first year and a half that I was just home with my daughter. But I knew for me, I knew for it was something where I needed to get back to school and needed that other outlet, right, I mean everybody's different and yeah, me, I really really needed that and it filled up for me and I you're right, I balanced so much better and I think I was a much better mom because I had that balance. I knew, okay, this is my time and then I and then I'm leaving and and I also think it helped my husband a lot figure out how to be a dad, because I wasn't there doing dinner and you know, I was and there all the time. And in fact, at my I remember very vividly sort of one of these moments where I had I had called him. I had about a thirty to forty five minute drive down to school, e. every night, four nights a week, and...

I called him one day on the drive down and he just and this was after we had had a second child, and he said he and interrupts me and just I gotta go, the babies crying, dinners about to burn and he just was flustered, and I not in an awful way. Maybe you're like this is so good for him. I was like, this is fantastic because right, this is what mom must feel all the time. Yeah, and and I think because oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes, you know, when there's a second parent had just step in and juggle that with you, you don't feel that all that weight on you right that you have oftentimes, and it typically falls to the mom right where you're juggling all of those things at once. And ever since then I really think that changed not only our marriage but our parenting, because he really truly felt what it was like to do it all on your own and have to juggle that without somebody to step in and help you. Yeah, Col and I had a similar experience in New York when I he was the one home with the new baby and toddler and I was working, and he, yeah, same. Think that he was able to see how difficult it is and how challenging it is, and so he has such, you know, a bigger appreciation for what that takes. But also, yeah, it's definitely good to point out that it was always both of us sharing that. I don't know how people to it. If it's that, it's would be so difficult on your own. For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So, okay, I have another question for you here. Let's see. So, you you did school part time, nights, right, and then at what point did you side you want to specialize in adoption law? Was it early in school or later? You know, I it sounds a little bit cheesy, but I always felt it right. I never knew where adoption would play a factor in my life. I always felt dry, you know, I always felt really just drawn to adoption and just thought, I don't know how this will be a part of my life, but I just knew it would be. And when I was in school, you know, again always just kind of drawn to it, and there was an event for adoption called National Adoption Day, and I think it was probably my my sophomore or my, sorry, my second year of law school, and I thought well, you know, I should volunteer at this and kind of, you know, find out more about it. And it was I mean, it was a done deal after that, right. I mean it was all that I wanted to do in that sense that I didn't know how I was going to get there, but I just knew this is this is what I want. I'm really passionate about and I really want to be in this field, and so I was fortunate enough to find my way there. But yeah, yeah, so can you tell us about the firm that you work for now? Like, yeah, let's hear about it. So when I that the adoption event that I volunteered for, I went in and I think, Gosh, I went in and then I end up helping their organize their volunteers, I think the following year. But in the very...

...first meaning that I attended for that volunteer opportunity, I met my now law partner, Cathy Pidgeon, who's incredible and she's longtime adopting attorney here in the valley, and so I met her at a point in her career where she was looking to not step back a little bit, but to finally have some help. She had been so for a long time, as as a lot of people are in this field, and she had just kind of had a point where she was looking at maybe, you know, with the right fit. And so when she met me, you know, we joke that it was just sort of, you know, meant to be where we just we just clicked. I mean a partnership or, you know, in any business it's really similar to a marriage, where you've got there's so many different connection points you have to make right and you can't just both, you know, want to do this. You have to be able to operate well together. And so I interned for her during while I finished law school and then came on as an associate after I passed the bar and lunched write in right into practicing. And then you've always been able to do it part time, right, which would be so when I started I did. Yeah, when I started I did part time. I was in law school, so I, you know, juggled days here and there on the way to law school and then I worked parttime initially until then, you know, I just you know, merged into what I do now, which is more full time work, and then we partnered, Gosh, I don't know, a couple of years ago. So yeah, it's been it's been great and I think it's you know, she was able to mentor me and I was able to come in when she was looking to not have all the pressure of being a solo, and it's been it's been a great working really. And what's it like day to day like. Do you represent both parents who are placing and also parents are adopting? Sure, so we do. There's every adoptions difference. So I work for I represent a lot of adopting parents. Specifically, I do a lot of foster care work, so people adopting through the foster care system, okay, which can be relatives, grandparents and uncle's, brother sisters or you know, or traditional the foster parents who are who are adopting a child that they've been fostering. And then in private work I represent adopt people who are adopting or I represent birth mothers, so people who are placing their children, and I'll see them anytime. You know, I'll have birth mothers who come in and say I'm pregnant. I you know, help and I help them to find a family to place their child with and then, you know, sometimes they come to me and say I already know whom I want to place with and I just need to representation, that sort of thing. So a lot of people match on their own and you know, we're family friends, things like that, and so they just need to me to come in and do that. You know, the legal work and how does it work as far as fees, like who pays the fees? How does that work? So in a foster adoption, in Arizona at least, so every every state's different. Every state's completely different, fifty sets of adoption law, but in Arizona at least, our state, it's really nice. Our state actually...

...covers the legal cost to adopt a foster child. Okay, so I love that because I don't ever have to build a client in that situation. This I build the State Gotcha, which is great, and I don't build above with the state covers. So there's no kind of fees. And then in private yeah, the adopting parents are the ones that cover all legal costs. So they cover legal costs for the birth mother. So they're the ones. They're they're not the client, the client attorney. Relationship is still with the with the birth mother, but the adoptive parent pays those legal fees. So and they also pay medical fees. Or is that that various case by case. In a good majority of the cases the mother is often on state access, on our state medical insurance. Oh, you know, occasionally they'll have their own private insurance, but you know, again, the vast majority have are on access. Okay, so, but if they're, if they're not covered, if there's like an in you know, then then yes, typically they would cover those. Gotcha. And I'm curious, do you do you feel that, you know, everyone who's placing or adopting should have legal representation, or is it just very case by case? You think you know sometimes it's so absolutely okay, absolutely, I think you know it's adoption is one of those areas. It's an interesting thing because everyone hears adoption and they think it's all just sunshine and roses and and oftentimes it can be, but it's also incredibly complex. There's a lot of nuances and you don't know what's going to go wrong till it goes wrong. And I've even seen that where things will even come up now after all these years of practicing, that that's a little bit new, a little bit different, but it's a really small area of law and, you know, having having separate representation is pretty critical. First of all, you've got, you know, consent that the birth mother signs that, you know, places the child officially with the family, and the only way that those can be question is if they were taken, if they can be proven that they were taken under fraud or direst or undue influence, and so having representation in place where that that mother had the opportunity to, you know, be counseled and be counseled on her rights. I mean that's the really the only way to protect that. And there's other things that you know need to be discussed. You know, will learn be contact after the adoption and and so I think it's pretty critical that she have her own own representation. Yeah, to discuss those things. And typically the adoptive parents and birth mother are aligned, but not always, and so you know you want to make sure that you work through all of that. Do you ever represent both? Like know that would be a conflict of interesting said, be a conflict and ethical conflict. So you know you can't. Yeah, you can't representable. Yeah, that makes sense. So you know you'll hear about where, you know, people will go unrepresented and things like that, and that can happen, but in it's pretty rare that I wouldn't recommend that both both sides have their own attorney. Yeah, I know we had talked about Rachelle and Jessica's experience and just how unique it was. You know, ideally...

...it would be amazing if everyone had such a positive relationship and such an amazing open adoption. But I, you know, I don't know that much adoption and I still had the feeling that that would be very unique. And then talking to you, your like, yes, that's very unique. Maybe that close is. Yeah, I mean you know, it's an ideal situation, right. I mean that's what you hope for. You hope that it's this great positive thing and for a lot of people it is. You the more often what I see is that the biological mother, often times we'll sort of move on into another phase of her life and they'll be some loose contact. A lot of them, you know, if they move states, things like that. On thet'll be some loose contact and they they but they you know, they kind of move on to another phase of their life. But to see each other in person regularly, you know, it can happen. I certainly see it, but it's not necessarily the norm. Yeah, of every single day. Are you in in ever in a position where you sort of counsel or recommend as far as open or closed adoptions or how to do that, or would you refer them to like a counselor how would that work? So I always recommend counseling for birth mother. Okay, whether or not they take advantage of it. You know, you can't. Can't for somebody to do that. I always recommend it. Closed adoption is really a thing of the past, particularly in our world with, you know, Internet and facebook and all of that. No, it's pretty rare that you actually have a true close adoption where names aren't known. I've done one, HMM, out of the you know, all of the ones that I've done. Typically they're open, but the the degree of openness is what's what just it varies wildly, right. So some it's that they'll send a photo and update, you know once, once or twice a year, things like that, so that so that, you know, the birth mom knows that her child's okay and that he's growing here, she's growing up well. Others, you know, have visits, others send you know, see each other. At the end of the day, it's really up to the parties. It's really up to their relationship and I tell people that it you know, we typically can put together something called the contact agreement where we kind of outline, look, this is what's to be expected and this is what everyone's planning on doing and we submit this to the court and their court approved. But I always tell people, look, this is a bare minimum. Whatever relationship you're going to have is is going to going to grow organically right between the trust between you all and and for some people that grows into something beautiful where they see each other regularly and, you know, talk and like your guests last week. For other people it's a little more distant and for some, sadly, they lose contact and people move on. I will tell you more often than not it is the adopting family that is calling saying I can't get a hold of my birth mom. You know, everyone sort of goes into it thinking they're a little bit scared. They're thinking that the birth mom is going to come back and, you know, stock them or something. I never see that. I see in the reverse where the adopting families saying, Gosh, I we just really want to get a hold of her and we can't give her updates...

...and we can get a hold of her. Yeah, do you ever have any regrets about going into adoption? Think maybe there's that are not so much. No, yeah, no, I love it. I mean it's it's really hard at times. It's like anything. It's you know, there are really difficult things about it, but I genuinely, genuinely love it. So you don't mind those really hard things? Yeah, right, it makes it worth it. That's kind of amazing that you've been able to find it's great. Yeah, I feel very, so passionate about very, very lucky. Right, this is what you always you know, you want to find something that you do in life that you feel really passionate about. Definitely. So. Yeah, and they be able to make it work with I mean you have four kids now, five or kids, very funny like you're very a million of a couple more in there. No, no, or Gotcha or kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it works right. I mean I feel like anything, that it's always a balance. I mean it's you know, I think everyone's kind of realized that you, you know, can't have it all right. You can't do everything at all times. But I feel like for everyone, and it took me years to figure this out, you have to find that balance of what works for you and what things you're going to give up that are worth it. And I feel like I finally have got no point where that anything I give up for my family. We we get back in that sense of yes, you know, the flexibility that I have, and it really you know, but it takes time to figure that out. Yeah, definitely, and I know that we've talked about this and you are able to really make the time that you have with your kids more valuable, because it's precious. It's a little more limited if you're with them all day every day. The Times when I have been with mine all day every day, sometimes I don't make it that valuable. You know, I don't really do anything that and because I'm like, I've got all day and then I've got all day tomorrow. So and then can it can feel very long when you're going to yes, yeah, so in some ways that's good. Okay. Well, we have this exciting opportunity because you and your husband are here, and so we're actually going to play the newly wed game with you. Guys. Good, be amazing. We're not so really what the nuts? So newly wed game then, but we get and so we're going to go get our husband's and we'll be right back. Cole and troy say hi Hello. That was quite texy. So troy and I are sharing a microphone right now. I think I need a tic tech uncomfortably close. We have three microphones and definitely enough her own and we are sharing it to share. All right. So we're going to play the newly wed game for just we're going to ask the guys two questions and we girls are gonna just think of our answer and you can't change it based on what choice says. So cold you can answer. First, what is her favorite sport? So what is your favorites? Yes, Oh, that's easy. I answer right now. Yes, the volleyball. Okay, and Troy. What is Tiffany's favorite sport? This is harder. For Troy. Yeah, I was going...

...to say the volleyball for Aubrey. I actually knew that answer. Can I take mine, but my wife, can I take a picture for the look on choices face right now? It's that's going on the gram. It's because it's because what he wants to say I can answering to say. Are Two different things. Want. So is ballet a sport? Yes, okay, ballet, I think so. Would never have said that I did ballet for probably. Can I guess what yours is, tiffany? Yes, is it? Is it? MMM, because I know you were a cheerleader in high school. That's a sport, cheerleading. We worked hard. I would say it's cheerleading. Right, let's hear your's, tiffany. What's your favorite sport? So I was I was going to say tennis because that's the only one sport that I currently great sport. I did ballet when I was from the ages of probably five to thirty three. You aware that tiffany currently play tennis? I did not know that she currently place tennis currently. The last setter time we played was pretty three. Well, let's not get into the detail, but you guys can save this fight for the drive home. Yeah, well, we talk. You guys played pickle ball? No, okay, so a tennis we need to play. People would love pickle ball and we should play. We've been playing a lot. It's kind of like Ping Pong meets pickle ball and it's really fun. We'll play sometime. Okay. So second question. So, wait, you were correct. Thank you. That's so one point for the carters, it's true, negative one for the hills and it would be zero. Your hardcore here. Okay, so what will she say? Is the last thing you did that made her really happy? Cool, when I made lunch for the kids today. And Troy, what's the last thing you did that made tiffany really happy? When I changed the baby's dirty diaper. Yeah, good, when be specific? Today? Okay, good, that's good. If it's today. Yeah, there. Do you wom any? Yes, yeah, yeah, I want to hear because because I'm thinking the diaper change. That should be automatic. diagree. I agree. So that's not but what I thought was should be making. Sorry, I'm not helping you here, but no, but, but what was really great was this morning I woke up and I think it was like nine o'clock, which is always pleasant right when you have kids, because he was out with the boys, just hanging out with that late Nina, and I didn't even know they were I didn't even know they had woken up. Wow, dad, of the days call year Nice. Yeah, that's great. So, for the record, was it? It wasn't the diaper change then? No, okay, that's share duties. So now that another you guys are negative to just notice. Wait, wait, hold on, hang on. What's your because you made lunch every what's your answer? Because so they could be a zero. We could be thinking. So what I had thought of was when you cleaned out the fridge. That is like my love language is someone cleans out my fridge. But it's because that's just the last thing that I was like, oh, that's burned in my brain right. But...

...lunch today, because it wasn't just sandwiches guys. He like got all the stuff and made all the toppings for them to make individual pizzas for lunch today. It's above and beyond that and intense. Sat Out. Will was like best dad ever. was that kind of lunch. So that was big. And then he did the dishes. He cleaned up after to so dada her day to do the dishes. That's true, as I should all be a yeah, but individual pizzas, that's like above and beyond. That is that is that's all right. So Final Score, carters, zero hills, negative to we still win. That's it. That's it. Now. Is there one more question? Well, we have the girls questions now. So, Oh, okay, when is the last time he broke the law? Do Traffic Infringements? Comes like I sped the whole way down here. Oh, answer for Tiffany. I mean traffic infringements. If you can, that is breaking the law. The law is follow the speed limit. Let's let you hold on. Let's let's expand, because all I got stry non traffic, let's say traffic infringements. Speeding does not count, beating doesn't count. Okay, guys. So I could have to be like a big violation, I mean lots of speeding, right. So can I answer? Yeah, okay, please. I don't know that the last time he broke the law. I'M gonna go way back. Like it right, because really he doesn't break the law often. Doesn't break a lot often, and it's traffic stuff which is boring and nobody wants to hear that. But he he was arrested. was arrested. Let's here our and and he had I think it was like a can I s tell any charge his product? Okay, hold on, hold on. So the story about the arrest. Can we save that for the next episode? Sure, you guys share that. We're interviewer. Okay, can we just hear what it was? Maybe he wasn't generally want to. That's this is nothing. teaser. This is a teaser. Okay, stay tuned now. Would that be on? That why troy was arrested. It was a class B misdemeanor. Oh Dang it, I exactly. Is that your answer? Yes, it was, you were going to say. Now it's his answer. Yeah, because I really don't do too much to break the law. Okay, negative, so negative, one to zero, Aubrey. So you guys are similar in that neither of you do much to break the law, except that Cole never speeds, like never. He goes exactly the speed limit, if anything, sometimes a couple miles under. It pays to be safe. It's AWFUME. No, it's not that bad. But then he will get pulled over for the most random like don't even really count. He got pulled over once for making like an illegal left turn. That really wasn't even lie illegal. And the last time, this is what I'm going to say, the most recent thing, is he got pulled over for not leaving your lane and entering your lane, like he made a turn and then he came into the Middle Lane instead of the far left leg. That is who gets pulled off for. That absolutely ridiculous and correct. I made a left hand turn and I pulled into the Middle Lane instead of the...

...left lane and I got pulled over, and that's the last time I broke the law. That's very dangerous, just so you know, but it's still worth one point. So negative, one, two, one. Okay, last question with that was your answer. Yeah, yes, we were together also. Yeah, I think they did. We really hadn't talked before, but that is the last thing they died. You were thinking of that one. Yes, counts. We should have made us write them down to be now we're okay. Last one, Tiffany, what is the longest troy has ever gone without showering? I'm going to say in his adult life, right, we don't count yeah, adult life showers. I'm going to say five days, because he does like some of these campouts and engineering and stuff, mountain man things where they don't shower. I think that was probably his longest when they hiked like Mount Whitney. I'M gonna go for that. Okay, my answer is like five hours, because cold showers like three times a day for some reason, like you, for no, really showers once a day. I feel like I should go really accurately. I'm going to amend it to say because, yeah, we've been camping and things where there's just no shower available, but I still I still think probably three days is my guests longest. No, shower. All right, boys, what are your answers? So she is correct. It was camp it was while I was doing a camping trip, but it was at Mount Ray near and we were doing the wonderland trail for five days and there was no shower. Oh yeah, that's five days right. That's the point. That's like two points. Well, but if you had gotten the right mountain, that would be two pounds. But at one point, one point, how many? How many days did you say? Aubrey, three, see, I went with four and okay now, but usually, like camping time, things right. So it's a high game. Zero to zero. All right. How ill? How long have you been married, trophy? Yeah, there, like it's another not so newly wed game, but we're not answering any better than newly weds. W all right, that's all for this week's episode. Things are coming tiffany and chatting with me, and next week we're going to have troy. I'm going to interview troy and it's going to be blast and we're going to hear about all about how he was arrested. By the way, there's a big baby that's in the room. If you've been hearing a thumping noise at all during the last five or ten minutes. Slapping his leg. That's the baby. Yeah, that's the baby, kicking the floor right by the microphone. So all right, see you next time.

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